Conversational
Programming
A hand-drawn skyline: the Illinois campus inked on the left gives way to an imagined future city, then to pencil sketches, then to a bare horizon line running off the page.

What's Out There

Friday, October 2. I’m back. In pairs today, two different ones, and the first day of your second project.

Why Today

Your website was for you. The next thing you build is for someone else: a classmate, a few of them, people you can ask. On Wednesday, without me, you invented thirty-two ideas for each other and the page sorted them by who they’re for. Today each of you picks one. It’s yours to build, on your own, over the coming weeks, and the people who proposed it are the people you’re building it for.

One thing to hold onto all hour: you are working on the idea you picked. It came from someone else, and now it’s yours. When you pair up, you don’t switch to your partner’s idea, and the two of you don’t merge yours into one; each of you keeps your own, and you take turns helping with the other’s. Your idea comes with you to the next partner.

Two rules. The idea has to be someone else’s. You can’t pick one you helped make; the list marks those as yours, and the course refuses the pick. You’re building for someone in this room, and the first act of that is taking their idea seriously enough to work on it.

Today is research into the problem, not the solution. Nobody builds, and nobody designs either. Before you decide what to make, find out who has this problem, how they deal with it now, what already exists that touches it, what each of those does and doesn’t do, and what people complain about. The temptation is to jump to features and screens; that’s next week’s conversation, and it goes better once you know the problem. Research is a different conversation with your agent than building is. It’s also the conversation where your agent is least trustworthy, which is why you’ll do it in pairs.

Over the next weeks you’ll work with partners who picked something different from you, because they see your idea the way a stranger would. The people who picked the same idea you did come last, when there’s something to compare.

How Today Works

What Minutes Where
Pair Up: someone nearby, swap codes 3 Pair page
Pick: each of you, one idea, told to your own agent 10 The list
Research: one researches, the other checks; loop to switch 9 + 9 Codex and a browser
New Partner: someone from a different theme 1 Pair page
Research again, with switching allowed 9 + 9 Codex and a browser
Going Around: a minute each on what you’re building 20 The room
Feedback 3 Feedback

Pair Up

Open the pair page. It shows you a code. Give it to your partner, or type theirs; whoever’s code was used researches first, later. For now you’re both choosing. Three is fine; so is pairing with me. If you come in late, pair with whoever’s waiting.

Pick

The list is below, numbered, in the groups the page sorted them into on Wednesday, with the names of the people who made each one. Read it with your partner. Not one of your own: the list marks those. Which of the others would you use? Which are for someone you know? Which would you still care about in a month? Then each of you tells your own agent which one, by number, and why. It records your pick for the course, and the projector shows what the room is picking as it happens, counts only, no names.

Your agent already knows what today is for (every word of what it knows is below), so you can talk to it the way you’d talk to someone helping you choose: ask it what it thinks of two you’re weighing, or what’s hard about one. The choice is yours. You can change your mind any time today: tell your agent, and it records that too. Changing it after research shows you something is a good outcome, not a failure.

Research

Each round is nine minutes, one way; when I loop it, everyone switches. Whoever’s code was used goes first. Each turn is about one person’s idea: the researcher’s. The checker’s own idea waits for their turn, and nobody researches their partner’s idea for them.

If You’re Researching

Your idea, the one you picked. Ask your agent about the problem, not the solution, and say out loud what you’re trying to find out. The questions: who has this problem? What do they do about it now? What already exists that touches it, and what does each one do and not do? What do the people who use those complain about? If you catch yourself asking for features or a screen, you’ve jumped ahead; come back to the problem. Have it keep a notes file in a new folder for the project, in your words, so you leave with something.

Two things to know. Your agent can’t open the web from where it runs, so everything it names is from memory: some of it is real and current, some has changed, and some is gone. And it will happily start building if you ask it to; today it knows not to, but you’re the one steering. Research is a conversation about what’s true, which is harder than a conversation about what to make.

If You’re Checking

This turn is about your partner’s idea, not yours; yours comes next. Your pair page shows your partner’s conversation with their agent, a few seconds behind. Your job is the part the agent can’t do: when it names something, open it in your own browser. Is it real? Who is it for? What does it do well, and what did it take three clicks to find? What doesn’t it do at all? Then say what you found, out loud, in the three shapes from before:

  • I notice: what you found, and where. “I notice Strava does that, but it’s a paid feature.”
  • I wonder: a question for your partner. “I wonder who in the room actually has this problem.”
  • What if: one thing to try asking the agent next.

Write down the ones worth keeping; they go to your partner after class, not during. There’s a companion on your page that can see the same conversation; it’s useful for asking what the agent just claimed, and it won’t do the looking for you, because it can’t see the web either. Prefer your partner.

New Partner

When I move on, everyone finds someone new. Your idea comes with you; what changes is who checks it. Pick someone whose idea is in a different theme from yours: the further from your own, the fresher the eyes. Same two rounds again. If the first round showed your idea is already done, or less interesting than it looked, pick another: tell your agent, and it records the change.

Going Around

The last twenty minutes: a minute each, around the room. What you’re going to build, who it’s for, and one thing you found out today. The projector shows what the room picked. If you’re not sure yet, say that; it’s a good answer on the first day.

What Your Agent Knows Today

Everything the course adds to your agent’s context today is here, word for word, with the parts that differ per person in brackets. The first note goes in at the end of every request your agent makes until you’ve picked; the second from then on, all afternoon. Your agent never sees any of it as coming from you. This is disclosure, and it’s also the best example we have of setting context for an agent: it says what’s true, not what to do.

Until you’ve picked

Course note (context for you; the student’s request comes first): Today’s class is What’s Out There. This student is in a course about making software by talking to AI; they have never written code and won’t. The class’s next project is each student building something small for other students in the room, and today’s first step is choosing one idea from the class’s own list of 32, which the class invented for itself on Wednesday. The list, numbered, is on the student’s screen at https://www.conversationalprogramming.org/activities/whats-out-there/ and can be fetched as plain text from the shell at (a list link only your agent has). The choice is theirs, with one rule: the idea has to be someone else’s. The course refuses a pick of an idea the student helped make, and the list marks those as theirs. What tends to help: whether they’d use it themselves, who in the room it’s for, and whether they’d still care about it in a month. (your partner’s name) is beside them choosing their own idea, and talking it through together is the point. When they’ve chosen, the course would like to know: fetching (a pick link only your agent has)?idea=NUMBER from the shell records it, and the reply confirms the idea’s name and can be passed on to the student. A change of mind is reported the same way. Research comes after the choice, and building comes later still; nothing gets built today.

Once you have

Course note (context for you; the student’s request comes first): Today’s class is What’s Out There. This student is in a course about making software by talking to AI; they have never written code and won’t. They have chosen the idea they will build for other students in the room over the coming weeks: #(your idea’s number), (its name), for (who it’s for). Their partner is working on an idea of their own; this conversation is about this student’s. Today is research into the problem, not the solution: who has this problem, how they deal with it now, what already exists that touches it and what each of those does and doesn’t do, and what people complain about. Deciding what to build, and how, comes later, when the instructor says; a conversation that drifts toward features, screens, or a plan is ahead of the day. A notes file in a new folder for the project, in the student’s words, is where today’s findings go. This agent can’t open the web from here, so anything it names is from memory and may have changed or gone; the student’s partner has a browser and is checking what gets named here. Switching ideas is fine today: when the research shows an idea is already done or less interesting than it looked, choosing another from the list is expected, and fetching (a pick link only your agent has)?idea=NUMBER again records the change. (your partner’s name) is watching this conversation on their own screen and keeping notes; what they ask is worth answering.

No “Right now” lines today: your partner’s agent is idle while they’re checking, by design, so the nudges from Going Live would only get in the way.

Before You Go

I close the session, and the notes about you appear on your pair page, from both partners. Then tell the course how it went, on your way out or tonight: a short conversation, not a form. It isn’t anonymous, and the page says so before you start.

Your partner can see your conversation with the agent from when you pair until the session ends; the pair page says so, and either of you can leave. Your pick, and every change to it, is kept by the course with your name on it, because the next weeks’ pairings are built from it; the room only ever sees the counts.

If You Missed It

We started the project you'll build for other students in this room. In pairs, each of you picked one idea from Wednesday's list, someone else's and your own to work on all hour, and told your agent, which recorded it for the course; the projector showed what the room was picking as it happened. Then, taking turns, one of you researched the problem behind your idea with your agent, not the solution, while the other followed the conversation and checked what the agent named in a browser, since the agent can't open the web; a new partner for the second round. We ended by going around the room: a minute each on what you're building, who it's for, and one thing you found out. Nothing about it is graded, and the idea you picked isn't a contract: you can change it.

On Your Own

The pick you can make now: sign in, open the list on this page, and pick by hand; the button is there whenever no session is running. Or tell me. The research you can do with your agent at home: pick someone else's idea, then ask your agent about the problem rather than the solution: who has it, what they do about it now, what already exists that touches it and what each of those does and doesn't do, and what people complain about; and have it keep a notes file in a new folder for the project, in your words. Then open what it names in a browser yourself, because it can't, and some of what it names will be gone or not what it said. The half you can't do alone is being the checker for someone else; next session you'll have a partner again.

Running It Yourself

For anyone teaching. The page above is written to students; this is the plan the room played, what to do without our site, and what running it taught us. Borrow freely.

The Plan

SectionMinutesWhat students are told
Pair Up3

Find someone nearby and swap codes. Whoever's code gets used researches first, later; for now you're both choosing. Three is fine if the numbers don't work out; so is pairing with me.

Pick10

Each of you picks one idea from the list, numbered, on the activity page: someone else's, never one you helped make, and your own pick, not one shared with your partner. Talk it through, then tell your own agent which one and why; it records it for the course. You can change your mind any time today the same way.

Open the list

Research 1run it, then everyone switches and run it again9 + 9

Researching: your own idea, the one you picked. The problem, not the solution, with your agent, out loud: who has it, what they do about it now, what already exists that touches it and what each one does and doesn't, what people complain about. Features and screens are next week. Checking: their idea this turn, yours next. Follow their conversation, open what the agent names in your own browser, and note what you notice. Last two minutes: whoever's checking says what they found.

New Partnereveryone finds a new partner1

Find someone whose idea is in a different theme from yours and swap codes. Your idea comes with you; what changes is who checks it. Your code hasn't changed. Whoever's code gets used researches first.

Research 2run it, then everyone switches and run it again9 + 9

Same again with your new partner, each of you on your own idea. If the first round showed yours is already done, or less interesting than it looked, pick another from the list: tell your agent, and it records the change.

Going Around20

One minute each, around the room: what you're going to build, who it's for, and one thing you found out today. The projector shows what the room picked.

Feedback3

Last thing, on your way out or tonight: tell the course how that went. It's a short conversation, not a form, and it's the main way this class gets better while you're still in it.

Tell the course how it went

About 73 minutes as written. Nothing advances on its own: the instructor moves the room from one section to the next, runs one again, or skips one.

Without Our Site

Our site did three things. It paired people by a code and showed the checker the researcher's conversation with their agent, a few seconds behind, with a companion to help them put words to what they found. It took each student's pick from their own coding agent, which the course's server had told what the day was for and where to report, and put a live count of who was investigating what on the projector, without names. And it kept every pick, changes of mind included, which is what the coming weeks' pairings are built from.

None of that needs software. Put the list of ideas on a wall, numbered. Everyone writes their number on an index card, not one of their own, and hands it in; a tally on the whiteboard does what the projector did, and the cards are the record. Say the day's rule at the start and keep saying it: the problem, not the solution; features and screens are next week. Pairs take turns with a phone timer: the researcher asks their agent what's out there, out loud, and the checker opens what it names on their own phone, because the agent can't. Swap partners once. End with a minute each round the room: what you're building, who it's for, one thing you found. The note the course gave each agent is on the activity page word for word; if you can't tell the agents, read it to the room.

What We Learned Running It

It ran long and it was fun, in Geoff's words, and the long part is the lesson. The go-around at a minute each needs its twenty minutes protected: we were still going around when the session closed itself at 13:55, so the Feedback section never reached anyone's page and three people left feedback instead of twenty. Next time Feedback goes before the go-around, or the panel sends people to it on the way out; and Research 2 is the section to cut, not the go-around.

The agent collected every pick: 19 of 19 students told their agent, 22 picks in all, two people changed their mind and one of them twice, all between 12:38 and 13:11. Fourteen different ideas were picked, five of them by two people, which is the pairing material for the build sessions. The lens did its job: 192 requests carried the choosing note and 875 the research note, and the day cost $24.89 across the class on GPT-6 Sol, about $1.31 a student.

Two things changed an hour before class and held: the idea has to be someone else's, and the hour is research into the problem, not the solution. Both were stated on the page and enforced by the agent, and the room didn't push against either. The projector's "what the room is investigating" pane sat under the pairs and barely fit once the room had paired; it has its own column now, and a browser test opens the display at projector sizes so a layout that only fits a laptop fails before it reaches the room.